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IP Rights - CL palette book

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Ummm... wut?

I really can't recall seeing any other sites selling their member's content like this... Flickr and DeviantArt don't sell books of their member's work, YouTube doesn't sell stock video, etc.

We can't delete our palettes/patterns, and we have no way of managing the rights to them. Still.

So what's next? Selling user information? Selling seamless templates?
We don't own exclusive rights to what we create here.

To quote the thread you linked to:

For reference... The terms we'll generally end up with are similar to what Threadless has:
You retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions. However, by submitting the User Submissions to, you hereby grant a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable, and transferable right and license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Website and's (and its successor's) business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Website (and derivative works thereof) in any media now known or hereafter developed.
Those are threadless terms.

We don't own any rights here.
All content submitted to the COLOURlovers web site, including but not limited to Colors, Palettes, Patterns, Comments, Ratings; become the property of COLOURlovers. This information may be published and used in marketing material, products & services.

Usually terms like that are to cover a company if they wish to use member's work to advertise and to allow them to display the work on the site.

Actually making products out of them is legal by those terms, yes. It just doesn't sit right with me.
Hey sero* sorry for the surprise. I was planning on sharing the book in a blog post on Monday... what it is and where it is coming from... but let's get this party started! :)

Off the top of my head, I don't know if you have a palette in the book, but if you do:
It is named what you named it.
It says it was created by you.
In the index of the book there is name & link credit to your palette page here on CL.

So your work is thoroughly credited as your own. (If it were possible to have a book authored by 1,000+ people I'd have all your name up there with my own. *It does say in the subtitle that it is from the community)

And as OrigamiMei mentions... you own the rights to your creations here, but we also have some license to creations.

AND we are going to update the terms sitewide to reflect the Threadless like license quoted above... and to allow all members to choose any creative commons license on their work... even to delete it.

We hoped members would be excited to see their creations in print.

We also hope that this book outsells the Harry Potter series, but realistically it will sell thousands of copies... and the way book publishing works, we get a small percentage of the sale. I know people's concern isn't specifically about how much money this makes us, but I just want people to understand the work vs. return for us in this book isn't about a profit. It's about being able to share our member's creations in a physical book... To share COLOURlovers with a growing audience. To honor and let your work shine.

And to answer you what's next question... We would love to have a marketplace where member creations can be sold, but you the members will decide what will be in it and you'll get the lion's share of the revenue from anything that is sold.

As always, I'm available if you want to have a conversation about any of this. Send me a note and I'll give you my cell number.

haha now I get why the terms weren't changed, well played sir
Book content was selected 2 years ago.

Does it ever get tiresome assuming we're maliciously exploiting you? Cause it sure gets tiresome explaining that we're not.
You know, I wouldn't mind if I see one of my things in there (which obviously wouldn't happen because I joined CL last year) because it would make me feel recognised and appreciated both digitally and on print :D. Just my own opinion tho. I really love the presentation...and "the rules for colour are not black and white" hahaha :DD
I don't think it's malicious exploitation, lol. I think it doesn't align very well with what you've said in the past, and it seems in poor taste to sell your users' content in book form with no notification etc but that's just me. I'm sure others will be thrilled that their work is in there.
manekineko wrote: seems in poor taste to sell your users' content in book form with no notification etc but that's just me...

COLOURlover wrote:
Hey sero* sorry for the surprise. I was planning on sharing the book in a blog post on Monday... what it is and where it is coming from...

The notification was just supposed to come a little later!
Ugh. The terms as of July 2005 were: (they've been poorly written since the beginning)
"colour, and palette information, comments and ratings submitted to the web site become the porperty of COLOURlovers."
Web Archive

I wish after all the calls and times I've responded to you... that you could fully understand and appreciate who I am and where I'm coming from. Because each accusation and assumption of deceit hurts. And I waste too much time and energy dealing with sarcastic digs or passive agressive complaints.

So after all of the times we've talked about what it is we're doing and how we respect our members, if you still truly feel like we're not honoring our side of the bargain and your work isn't being treated fairly... then you're welcome to leave and we'll honor your request to have all your creations removed from COLOURlovers so there can't be any further opportunities for you work to be used unfairly.
I personally hope you'll keep sharing your good work and start giving us the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks! We hope everyone feels the same way you do.
I think it doesn't align very well with what you've said in the past, and it seems in poor taste to sell your users' content in book form with no notification etc but that's just me.

It wouldn't be the morally right thing to do, but considering the way the terms are written now... We could have released the book with absolutely no credit to COLOURlovers at all or any of the members of the site. But instead we honored the terms I've said in the past we'd honor. We gave credit to members in multiple places for each palette.

We definitely could have done a better job notifying members about this. I apologize for not letting everyone know sooner and for the way it's been released to the community. I was excited to share the book with everyone on Monday.

And again, I hope most people will still be as happy as I am to see all our creations in the real world.
and you should be happy :)
Easy for me to say, because my stuff won't be included (too recent), but I joined up with the full awareness that I don't "own" anything I do here. Nor do I wish seems to me that the developers of this site have devoted enormous and tireless effort to create this endlessly amusing playground where we can all get together and mix it up. Each of us is free to buy our own graphics software (at significantly higher expense, when it's offered gratis here), and market our own work in whatever venue we choose, for whatever compensation we can hope to receive. Instead, or perhaps in addition, we show up here, because it's...well...FUN. Most of us post quasi-anonymously, anyway, and those who wish for personal recognition have an opportunity to link to our own blogs or websites from prominent headings on our profile pages--a self-promotional option that costs users nothing. Anyone who visits CL on the strength of what they see in the book will get a generous eyeful of who is doing what, so I'm not sure how it is that people are feeling violated. More like celebrated, seems to me.

It's perfectly respectable to want to protect intellectual property rights; on the other hand, the creative commons is an enormously fertile playground that profits everyone who participates, on whatever level. A different kind of marketplace that freely lets in many who might otherwise be left out. There is a cost to maintaining this site, and yet it's refreshingly free of obtrusive advertising, so even if the book does make a profit, is it inappropriate for us to be asked to contribute, especially when that contribution costs us nothing but the joy of doing? With all the really vicious forms of colonialism rampant in the world, this really seems the most benign form of sweatshop imaginable. Just sayin'...

Thanks, guys♥
D: If book content was selected 2 years ago, mine wont be in it.. because 2 years ago I was still producing crap!

Can bubs add more new stuff in it? :P How about a sneak peek at the pages of the new book too? :)))

@sero*: COLOURlovers is right.. he doesnt really respond that proactively on threads! Plus, we are credited, so it's really not bad at all! :D
Faeleia wrote:
How about a sneak peek at the pages of the new book too? :)))

If you go to the link posted by sero* there are some (albeit very few) pages available for viewing :D
@twister - thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree that most people come here for fun, we have awesome free tools, and that CL has put in hard work, expensive servers, and deserves to make a profit. The book is a cool idea, and the members are celebrated and attributed. Those are good things.

CL is beyond palettes now - seamless allows for complex, unique, and amazing art(?) works. As the tools grow and if CL is moving towards a marketplace, IP rights need to be addressed before the work is for sale. It sounds like this is the plan, and I'm optimistic for their future.
Congrats! =D
I think if you didn't discover this like you did but was informed - you would have reacted very differently and maybe even be honoured(?) I imagine it can give a sneaky feeling!
It is an honour I think to be referenced in a color theory book!

I hope will give you a book!
everyone agree? *wink*
ycc2106 wrote:
Congrats! =D
I think if you didn't discover this like you did but was informed - you would have reacted very differently and maybe even be honoured(?) I imagine it can give a sneaky feeling!
It is an honour I think to be referenced in a color theory book!

I hope will give you a book!
everyone agree? *wink*

I agree. I found out about this a few days ago, on my own and felt a little betrayed (for lack of a better term). I know that I appear in the book at least a couple times yet I hadn't heard A WORD about it on CL. I talked with many other lovers from 2009-2009 and they felt the same way after discovering their palettes showed up in the book as well. Even though many of the "older" lovers aren't active anymore, it would have been nice to know there was a book coming out and that my palette had been selected.

I asked around to other lovers, old and new, and not one of them had a clue about the book. I don't know where sero* found the book link, but I can definitely understand his feelings in starting this thread.
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