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CL Pattern Thievery

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American Women

We_Come_in_Peace

Gasp365 wrote:
So what is the resolution or solution or goal to all this?

ArrayOfLilly

I have been watching this talk with worry for a long time. I will copy my own opinion from the other topic, because I see that this is very one-sided and I'm afraid of the results.

Watermark makes all of your work unusable for everyone and for any purpose. All of your work will be wortheless junk.

This time my templates and patterns are under CC3 license with allowed commercial usage, etc.

If the watermark is introduced I will delete all of them. I make pattern, for people to use fairly. Some people can"t do this. They steal my stuff. But the idea and the ability for creating things remains mine. People who are thieves should be ashamed.

But even so, i still want to make things for people like you and others in this community.

I hope, watermark will be optional. If not, I will quit.

On the other hand, without thiefs, I never would have heard about this site. And now I'm here and I can create things for the community.


I have another suggestion as well: We could tie the downloading option to user's activity and a minimum membership time. It then wouldn't be worth if for the thieves and even if it were, the community would at least get something in return.
At the same time we wouldn't limit the fair users unnecessarily.

One more question how do you intend saving templates from screen capturing?

ArrayOfLilly

I see many-many problems.

If you place on the 200x200px sized preview a watermark, no matter how big the sign, on a screen with 1024x768 resolution it will be repeated min. 15 times. That ruins the harmony.

Second, when you color a template, you need to see the hole thing. The watermarks hide the parts of the image. If in this case we don't use the watermark, we can't protect the content from the screen capturing.

I suggest to you more things, just ideas, like watermark in this time:
- paying for download, especially batch download
- limitations for daily download quantity
- limited membership like I suggested above (most painless)
- perhaps some automated method in the system that pays attention to the users activity. In suspected cases provide the possibility to efficient action
- more marketing: if everybody knows this site, the thief can't ask for money
- optional usage of watermarks, like licenses.

Finally, this is the internet and the price of the freedom. There will always be who is abusing. We can't live in an incubator.

My personal relation to the thiefts that I'm proud when somebody want to steal my stuff (she or he thinks that my creation is nice and marketable). (It's not fair, yes, but there is little time for resentment. My time is more valuable. I have to go make things.

Sorry for my terrible English, I hope you can understand my opinion.

GabsGiggles

I rather my work have 5242145 watermarks than having a bunch of people stealing it. I don't really see why people wold use my patterns for, apart for using it without permission to make themes and things like that.

I don't think people should download others work, unless is someone I really know and I want to give them permission. That way I have no problem at all.

Being a member who actually knows the extent of the stealing, I'm all for protection. I don't really care if people steal my work because they like it, that's what the loves are for. We only get to find 1/3 if not less of all the stolen works. You wouldn't feel flattered if you don't even know they've been taken.

Its not the same to say ''IF they steal my work'' than actually see it on different sites. It's irritating.

maryjd

I'd say it's more than irritating for anyone who actually makes a living, or would like to make a living from design. It's not that anyone would post the designs on colourlovers that they want to sell- that wouldn't be a smart thing to do. However if there is no real protection and no consequences that are enforced for stealing, people are less likely to pay for pattern designs when there are plenty of sitting ducks out there, waiting to have their work taken for free.

On the other hand I don't personally believe it's a major issue if individuals want to borrow designs strictly for personal use, but they should still ask permission. From the template designer, not just the colourist although they really should ask both.

ArrayOfLilly

I understand you. I hope you can use watermarks on your creations.

But there is a thing.

I don't think people should download others work


The site works in this way since it's begginning. When we started creating things, we knew the rules. What has changed?

Can you imagine the next case? Template creator working for hours (somtimes for days) to make a template. She or he need to buy softwares, etc.. Pattern creator put a template and maybe a palette from someone else, as inspirating. 5 click and produce the new pattern. Set the license to all rights is reserved.

And the template creator and the palette maker can't use it on the computer desktop?!

Legally correct. But it's not fair.

Yes, if we believe in people somtimes we will be disappointed, frustrated, etc.
If we don't, we will be very lonely with our legitimate properties.

GabsGiggles

I don't really understand what you've said. About the download thing, of course all the members involved in a pattern should been allowed to download it.

Can you imagine the next case? Template creator working for hours (somtimes for days) to make a template. She or he need to buy softwares, etc...

That's exactly the same reason we need protection. All that work so anyone can taken it and even make money from your work, specially if you had to buy the software.

ArrayOfLilly wrote:
I understand you. I hope you can use watermarks on your creations.

But there is a thing.

I don't think people should download others work


The site works in this way since it's begginning. When we started creating things, we knew the rules. What has changed?

Can you imagine the next case? Template creator working for hours (somtimes for days) to make a template. She or he need to buy softwares, etc.. Pattern creator put a template and maybe a palette from someone else, as inspirating. 5 click and produce the new pattern. Set the license to all rights is reserved.

And the template creator and the palette maker can't use it on the computer desktop?!

Legally correct. But it's not fair.

Yes, if we believe in people somtimes we will be disappointed, frustrated, etc.
If we don't, we will be very lonely with our legitimate properties.

maryjd

On facebook, I can download my own images back to my desktop, but not those of others. Colourlovers should be able to have that kind of protection too. It might be possible for individual users to control who can download and who can't.

Sreencapture is another issue, but at least it takes those extra steps, and I think the image would not be as high resolution, if I'm not mistaken.

GabsGiggles

I agree. At least it will stop the lazy and unskilled ones.
maryjd wrote:

Sreencapture is another issue, but at least it takes those extra steps, and I think the image would not be as high resolution, if I'm not mistaken.

OrigamiMei

I think only those users should be able to view and download a preview image.

Or...the most logical solution...do away with preview images entirely. I'm not 100% sure what purpose they serve, anyway. But, of course, preview images aren't the only problem. A person can easily download the wallpaper and then edit out the CL banner.

There is no easy and cheap solution. All I know is that something needs to be done. I do not find it flattering that people want to take our hard work and use it without permission or credit. As a matter of fact, it's not a complement at all nor is it meant to be taken as one. It's simply greed. Others may be fine with that but I am not.


GabsGiggles wrote:
I don't really understand what you've said. About the download thing, of course all the members involved in a pattern should been allowed to download it.

GabsGiggles

Exactly!

You know, I don't think I've ever downloaded something here, not even my stuff :p
OrigamiMei wrote:
I think only those users should be able to view and download a preview image.

Or...the most logical solution...do away with preview images entirely. I'm not 100% sure what purpose they serve, anyway. But, of course, preview images aren't the only problem. A person can easily download the wallpaper and then edit out the CL banner.

There is no easy and cheap solution. All I know is that something needs to be done. I do not find it flattering that people want to take our hard work and use it without permission or credit. As a matter of fact, it's not a complement at all nor is it meant to be taken as one. It's simply greed. Others may be fine with that but I am not.


GabsGiggles wrote:
I don't really understand what you've said. About the download thing, of course all the members involved in a pattern should been allowed to download it.

Gasp365

Reading this thread , it's getting very hard to read and sift through to get to the meat of the discussion.

How about slowly start gathering all the wishes/ideas/suggestions? List them bulletpointed as clear and short as possible. After listing each, submit one list to the CL team.

Omit the reasons and motivations behind the those bulletpointed suggestions, because they would've already been voiced in this thread.

The CL team will ultimately decide what will or won't be developed.

GabsGiggles

It sums up everything pretty well.
- Paying for downloads, especially batch downloads
- Limitations for daily download quantity

If this can't be done, control over the download section.
- Limited memberships

More like categorize the accounts by levels or something like that.
OrigamiMei wrote:
That is an excellent idea. Thank you, Inka. ♥

Possible solutions to the pattern thievery issue:
- Software to prevent downloading of preview images.
- Adding watermarks to images.
- Paying for downloads, especially batch downloads
- Limitations for daily download quantity
- Limited memberships
- Perhaps some automated method in the system that pays attention to the users activity. In suspected cases provide the possibility to efficient action
- More marketing: if everybody knows this site, the thief can't ask for money
(by the way, Lily, these are some great suggestions. ♥)
- Removing preview images altogether.

Did I miss anything?

Alias Micky Dolenz

OrigamiMei wrote:
That is an excellent idea. Thank you, Inka. ♥

Possible solutions to the pattern thievery issue:
- Software to prevent downloading of preview images.
- Adding watermarks to images.
- Paying for downloads, especially batch downloads
- Limitations for daily download quantity
- Limited memberships
- Perhaps some automated method in the system that pays attention to the users activity. In suspected cases provide the possibility to efficient action
- More marketing: if everybody knows this site, the thief can't ask for money
(by the way, Lily, these are some great suggestions. ♥)
- Removing preview images altogether.

Did I miss anything?


Gasp365 wrote:
Reading this thread , it's getting very hard to read and sift through to get to the meat of the discussion.

How about slowly start gathering all the wishes/ideas/suggestions? List them bulletpointed as clear and short as possible. After listing each, submit one list to the CL team.

Omit the reasons and motivations behind the those bulletpointed suggestions, because they would've already been voiced in this thread.

The CL team will ultimately decide what will or won't be developed.

While I think the rest is great, and hopefully it all gets accomplished, limited memberships wouldn't be fair for the people who can not afford to pay for the site monthly. I know I will not be able to and I love to see what everyone is posting. While $5.00 (USD) or what not is not a lot every month for some, others have families and live off of their weekly checks and may not be able to afford to be shelling money out for a full membership. The website is free to begin with, that is the beauty of it. It sucks people are stealing our stuff. I think that it's terrible and wrong for them to do so. In turn, I feel watermarking and paying for downloads will take care of everything for us without having limited memberships. Just saying. It's hard to raise a family and have to worry about paying for something that is a luxury to all of us and a privilege that we all share. It's just like Getty Images or one of those type sites. If we had a site like that, I think it would be more enjoyable for us to be able to be on here without the thievery. :)

Alias Micky Dolenz

Another way to control the problem possibly is having to make a username and password before being able to view peoples work. I feel if we did something like this on top of everything else you posted Heather, then people can't see our work until they are a CL.

Also, possibly disable the right click button on someone elses page until you've purchased a download of the pattern or palette in question. It would be nice to also know who is downloading your stuff. It should without question be part of the notifications.

Gasp365

I suspect that the term used isn't the correct one?

Instead of 'Limited Membership' perhaps something like this is meant: "Minimum Duration of* Membership before downloading is allowed."

Alias Micky Dolenz

Gasp365 wrote:
I suspect that the term used isn't the correct one? Instead of 'Limited Membership' perhaps somthing like this is meant: Minumum Duration of* Membership before downloading is allowed.


I agree with this! That is a great idea. The user maybe should have to post a certain number of works of their own before they are able to see or download others works? What do you think of that?

GabsGiggles

Yeah. It can work with the level suggestion I made. Not only how old is the account but also participation, like certain number of patterns, palettes, loves, faves, messages. The higher the level the more ''freedom'' or ''permission'' or download quantity you get.
Alias Micky Dolenz wrote:
Gasp365 wrote:
I suspect that the term used isn't the correct one? Instead of 'Limited Membership' perhaps somthing like this is meant: Minumum Duration of* Membership before downloading is allowed.


I agree with this! That is a great idea. The user maybe should have to post a certain number of works of their own before they are able to see or download others works? What do you think of that?

OrigamiMei

Oh, believe me, I totally understand!

Alias Micky Dolenz wrote:

While $5.00 (USD) or what not is not a lot every month for some, others have families and live off of their weekly checks and may not be able to afford to be shelling money out for a full membership. The website is free to begin with, that is the beauty of it. It sucks people are stealing our stuff. I think that it's terrible and wrong for them to do so.


The disabling right-click is a great idea. I'll add it to the list.
I also love the idea of knowing when someone downloads our stuff. Perhaps put a meter on the page, along side the loves, views, and favorites, which tells how many times a pattern or palette has been downloaded?

Alias Micky Dolenz wrote:
Another way to control the problem possibly is having to make a username and password before being able to view peoples work. I feel if we did something like this on top of everything else you posted Heather, then people can't see our work until they are a CL.

Also, possibly disable the right click button on someone elses page until you've purchased a download of the pattern or palette in question. It would be nice to also know who is downloading your stuff. It should without question be part of the notifications.
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